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	<title>Comments on: Symbols and characters</title>
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	<link>http://www.zombieranchcomic.com/2012/04/11/symbols-and-characters/</link>
	<description>An online webcomic about a group of cowboys/cowgirls and their Zombie herd.</description>
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		<title>By: Zombie Ranch - Well that&#8217;s X-citing&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.zombieranchcomic.com/2012/04/11/symbols-and-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-66496</link>
		<dc:creator>Zombie Ranch - Well that&#8217;s X-citing&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 May 2013 07:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zombieranchcomic.com/?p=3532#comment-66496</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] little over a year ago I made an entire post on the subject of superficiality in characters, of the danger of those that deviate from the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] little over a year ago I made an entire post on the subject of superficiality in characters, of the danger of those that deviate from the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Clint</title>
		<link>http://www.zombieranchcomic.com/2012/04/11/symbols-and-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-10574</link>
		<dc:creator>Clint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2012 17:19:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zombieranchcomic.com/?p=3532#comment-10574</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And Gillsing, thank you for letting me know you think of Rosa as Rosa -- that&#039;s a tremendous compliment, and shows I&#039;m succeeding in getting her past that &quot;symbol&quot; status. Or at least, succeeding from your perspective :D]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Gillsing, thank you for letting me know you think of Rosa as Rosa &#8212; that&#8217;s a tremendous compliment, and shows I&#8217;m succeeding in getting her past that &#8220;symbol&#8221; status. Or at least, succeeding from your perspective <img src='http://www.zombieranchcomic.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Clint</title>
		<link>http://www.zombieranchcomic.com/2012/04/11/symbols-and-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-10573</link>
		<dc:creator>Clint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2012 17:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zombieranchcomic.com/?p=3532#comment-10573</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Absolutely true. Even a show like Star Trek which represents a future of the Earth as we know it has the liberty to dispense with questions of race, although arguably it approached it from such a complete opposite perspective that you can still see the question -- it just happened to be a question Gene Rodenberry answered with &quot;a couple centuries from now, we&#039;re all going to move past this and be one big, happy human family&quot;. 

Also, yes, throw aliens into the mix and suddenly you&#039;ve got handy targets to explore ideas of racism and prejudice without the baggage of actually using identifiable real world racial groups. A Romulan shooting a Klingon for hanging around and seeming suspicious has parallels to the Trayvon Martin situation but is more comfortable both to write and to view because of the layer of fantasy involved.

During Dr. Nama&#039;s Q&amp;A we also discussed some of the modern tendency to put a Rodenberry-style happy face on the past as well as the future. Like the Jonah Hex movie where he had to have a scene with a black friend telling him (and the audience) that Jonah may have fought for the Confederates but didn&#039;t believe in slavery. Or the Captain America movie where the Howling Commandos were suddenly multicultural pals hanging out in the bar, including the Japanese guy who drawls &quot;I&#039;m from Fresno, chief.&quot; Even though we&#039;re dealing with a fictionalized WWII full of ray guns and super soldiers, that was jarring to me because all I could think was &quot;You&#039;re lucky you&#039;re in Europe, chief, or you&#039;d be in an internment camp&quot;. There just wasn&#039;t enough speculative diversion from real history established for that to seem like anything more than pandering to modern sensibilities.

I&#039;ve seen ways to tweak it that aren&#039;t quite so jarring. For instance, the tabletop game Deadlands which I reviewed before had an Old West setting where women were far more emancipated, but explained that by the idea of the American Civil War having dragged on and on years past 1865, draining away a huge portion of the menfolk. Sure, the underlying goal was to let people play female characters in positions like U.S. Marshals, but historically it made a certain amount of sense as the absence of men going off to war has often seen the ladies stepping up out of necessity to take over occupations they normally wouldn&#039;t be considered for. Also historically, the pendulum swings back once the war ends and the men come home... but what if they don&#039;t come home?

I think Deadlands also had something about the Confederacy eventually freeing its slaves out of desperation, but I&#039;d have to look back over my books. But one of the other major themes of Deadlands was that hate and fear played right into the hands of the monstrous powers seeking dominion over humanity, so I don&#039;t think they glossed over the race issue entirely. Acknowledging it can be a minefield, but ignoring it can sometimes arguably be worse.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely true. Even a show like Star Trek which represents a future of the Earth as we know it has the liberty to dispense with questions of race, although arguably it approached it from such a complete opposite perspective that you can still see the question &#8212; it just happened to be a question Gene Rodenberry answered with &#8220;a couple centuries from now, we&#8217;re all going to move past this and be one big, happy human family&#8221;. </p>
<p>Also, yes, throw aliens into the mix and suddenly you&#8217;ve got handy targets to explore ideas of racism and prejudice without the baggage of actually using identifiable real world racial groups. A Romulan shooting a Klingon for hanging around and seeming suspicious has parallels to the Trayvon Martin situation but is more comfortable both to write and to view because of the layer of fantasy involved.</p>
<p>During Dr. Nama&#8217;s Q&#038;A we also discussed some of the modern tendency to put a Rodenberry-style happy face on the past as well as the future. Like the Jonah Hex movie where he had to have a scene with a black friend telling him (and the audience) that Jonah may have fought for the Confederates but didn&#8217;t believe in slavery. Or the Captain America movie where the Howling Commandos were suddenly multicultural pals hanging out in the bar, including the Japanese guy who drawls &#8220;I&#8217;m from Fresno, chief.&#8221; Even though we&#8217;re dealing with a fictionalized WWII full of ray guns and super soldiers, that was jarring to me because all I could think was &#8220;You&#8217;re lucky you&#8217;re in Europe, chief, or you&#8217;d be in an internment camp&#8221;. There just wasn&#8217;t enough speculative diversion from real history established for that to seem like anything more than pandering to modern sensibilities.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen ways to tweak it that aren&#8217;t quite so jarring. For instance, the tabletop game Deadlands which I reviewed before had an Old West setting where women were far more emancipated, but explained that by the idea of the American Civil War having dragged on and on years past 1865, draining away a huge portion of the menfolk. Sure, the underlying goal was to let people play female characters in positions like U.S. Marshals, but historically it made a certain amount of sense as the absence of men going off to war has often seen the ladies stepping up out of necessity to take over occupations they normally wouldn&#8217;t be considered for. Also historically, the pendulum swings back once the war ends and the men come home&#8230; but what if they don&#8217;t come home?</p>
<p>I think Deadlands also had something about the Confederacy eventually freeing its slaves out of desperation, but I&#8217;d have to look back over my books. But one of the other major themes of Deadlands was that hate and fear played right into the hands of the monstrous powers seeking dominion over humanity, so I don&#8217;t think they glossed over the race issue entirely. Acknowledging it can be a minefield, but ignoring it can sometimes arguably be worse.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.zombieranchcomic.com/2012/04/11/symbols-and-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-10572</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2012 15:46:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zombieranchcomic.com/?p=3532#comment-10572</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think setting is important for this issue. The farther the setting is from &quot;the real world&quot;, the less one needs to pay attention to the racial dynamics as they exist for us.  If a setting doesn&#039;t have a history of slavery/colonization/racism etc. then the impact of &quot;race&quot; is different than it is for a story set closer to our own reality.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think setting is important for this issue. The farther the setting is from &#8220;the real world&#8221;, the less one needs to pay attention to the racial dynamics as they exist for us.  If a setting doesn&#8217;t have a history of slavery/colonization/racism etc. then the impact of &#8220;race&#8221; is different than it is for a story set closer to our own reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Gillsing</title>
		<link>http://www.zombieranchcomic.com/2012/04/11/symbols-and-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-10567</link>
		<dc:creator>Gillsing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2012 14:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zombieranchcomic.com/?p=3532#comment-10567</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t even know/remember who this &quot;Oscar&quot; character is, but Rosa is still &quot;The Stranger&quot;, not &quot;The Mexican Chick&quot;. Though since I don&#039;t really think she&#039;s a threat to the ranch, I mostly think of her as just &quot;Rosa&quot;. I think this comic does a good job of portraying the people as people and not symbols. Except possibly for Muriel&#039;s family, who seem to be a bit of a scary caricature. But they&#039;re white, so they can take it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t even know/remember who this &#8220;Oscar&#8221; character is, but Rosa is still &#8220;The Stranger&#8221;, not &#8220;The Mexican Chick&#8221;. Though since I don&#8217;t really think she&#8217;s a threat to the ranch, I mostly think of her as just &#8220;Rosa&#8221;. I think this comic does a good job of portraying the people as people and not symbols. Except possibly for Muriel&#8217;s family, who seem to be a bit of a scary caricature. But they&#8217;re white, so they can take it.</p>
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		<title>By: Sharon Kerr-Bullian</title>
		<link>http://www.zombieranchcomic.com/2012/04/11/symbols-and-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-10558</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharon Kerr-Bullian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2012 07:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zombieranchcomic.com/?p=3532#comment-10558</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m a big fan of randomly generating character race, appearance, nationality, etc, in my initial characterization phase, to give me variety, rather than a homogenous cast.

I&#039;m what some people call &#039;color blind&#039;. To me, a person is a person is a person. I don&#039;t judge people by skin color, because to me, it&#039;s not a factor, and should never have been a factor.

Despite my views, I know some people consider it a factor, so I look right down the barrel of this problem with my own writing.

With my sci fi/space opera novel, I can edge around the issue somewhat. When there&#039;s aliens to contend with, does skin color matter one bit? Probably not to the humans in the story. Though I will admit, my lead male is a white human male, my lead female is an alien, and in many cases, the skin color of background characters isn&#039;t even mentioned, unless needed for a bit of description, so my book might seem a bit racially bland, as sci fi often does.

But with the webcomic I&#039;m trying to write, I don&#039;t get out of it so easily, since it&#039;s set on Earth only a little into the future. That means I need to be conscious of current discrimination issues while writing it. I may have trouble in this story because it is visual and that means there isn&#039;t any ambiguity to a reader what color someone&#039;s skin is.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a big fan of randomly generating character race, appearance, nationality, etc, in my initial characterization phase, to give me variety, rather than a homogenous cast.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m what some people call &#8216;color blind&#8217;. To me, a person is a person is a person. I don&#8217;t judge people by skin color, because to me, it&#8217;s not a factor, and should never have been a factor.</p>
<p>Despite my views, I know some people consider it a factor, so I look right down the barrel of this problem with my own writing.</p>
<p>With my sci fi/space opera novel, I can edge around the issue somewhat. When there&#8217;s aliens to contend with, does skin color matter one bit? Probably not to the humans in the story. Though I will admit, my lead male is a white human male, my lead female is an alien, and in many cases, the skin color of background characters isn&#8217;t even mentioned, unless needed for a bit of description, so my book might seem a bit racially bland, as sci fi often does.</p>
<p>But with the webcomic I&#8217;m trying to write, I don&#8217;t get out of it so easily, since it&#8217;s set on Earth only a little into the future. That means I need to be conscious of current discrimination issues while writing it. I may have trouble in this story because it is visual and that means there isn&#8217;t any ambiguity to a reader what color someone&#8217;s skin is.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.zombieranchcomic.com/2012/04/11/symbols-and-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-10493</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2012 16:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zombieranchcomic.com/?p=3532#comment-10493</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s an interesting conundrum. I&#039;m running into similar issues in the stuff I&#039;m writing which is based on my real-world experiences which took place in a very diverse environment.  I&#039;m faced with taking the risk of portraying race or ethnicity in a way that could be interpreted as sterotypical, or playing it &quot;safe&quot; and writing a cast that looks and speaks like middle class suburban whites. Of course it&#039;s made trickier because race/ethnicity is not a key element of the story.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s an interesting conundrum. I&#8217;m running into similar issues in the stuff I&#8217;m writing which is based on my real-world experiences which took place in a very diverse environment.  I&#8217;m faced with taking the risk of portraying race or ethnicity in a way that could be interpreted as sterotypical, or playing it &#8220;safe&#8221; and writing a cast that looks and speaks like middle class suburban whites. Of course it&#8217;s made trickier because race/ethnicity is not a key element of the story.</p>
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